johnson hung up on them. he went to bed not knowing if johnson was going to announce his appointment the next day. but it was johnson's way of controlling him. still my boy. johnson and joe califf on the talked about this in his memoir about the way in which johnson would control people. this was one technique he had. the kiddies would leak things that would be too good vantage. didn't want anyone to delete that they would. it's a very changed environment. >> we begin by talking about the polls. would ask you about asking your professional a suspect in the. he was very focused on greatness and the idea of great leaders, great men, great people in history. where does he rank? if the average, below average, above average? >> i would describe it as a significant present. i would not say he was a great president in the league with let's say fdr or lincoln or washington, but he was a significant president. and in some ways his legacy becomes more significant than his record as president. there were some great achi